From chess master to chess piece.

The domestic podcast trend continues to gain momentum in China.

Internet celebrity Luo Yonghao has recently entered the podcasting space, launching his show "Luo Yonghao's Crossroads" to widespread attention. Luo had previously changed his Weibo account name to match the show title, boldly announcing plans to invite industry "heavyweights" for discussions on technology, humanities, and life choices. Each episode is expected to run 3-5 hours, with the first episode released on August 19 featuring Ideal Auto founder Li Xiang in a nearly 4-hour conversation, followed by the second episode on August 26 with XPeng Motors Chairman He Xiaopeng, lasting nearly 3 hours.

The term "podcast" originates from combining Apple's portable iPod device with "broadcast," originally referring to audio broadcast programs produced for download to portable devices for offline listening. Since Apple iTunes began supporting podcast subscriptions in 2005, podcasts have gradually become an important content format overseas. Around 2020, with YouTube's promotion of podcast development, video podcasts became the mainstream format internationally.

Bilibili's recent support policies and resource allocation for podcasts are attracting domestic podcasters to expand from audio to video formats. Luo Yonghao similarly chose an audio-visual parallel podcasting format, launching on platforms including Bilibili, WeChat Video, Douyin, Kuaishou, and Xiaohongshu in video format, while releasing on podcast platform Xiaoyuzhou (Little Universe) in audio format. However, leading domestic audio platform Ximalaya chose to release related content in video format.

Both Bilibili and Ximalaya hope podcasts will bring more growth to their platforms.

More than two months ago on June 10, Tencent Music Entertainment Group (TME) announced its full acquisition of Ximalaya for $1.26 billion in combined cash and stock. Ximalaya responded that it would maintain independent brand and product operations post-acquisition, with existing core teams and development strategies unchanged. This marked the transformation of this leading domestic online audio company, previously invested by Tencent and having failed to go public after four attempts, into a wholly-owned TME subsidiary.

During the early rise of mobile internet, the "ear economy" represented by Ximalaya, encompassing audiobooks, audio dramas, paid courses, and news programs, was once highly anticipated. However, Litchi FM, which emerged alongside Ximalaya, went public on NASDAQ in 2020 with a peak market value exceeding $600 million, but later faced delisting risks due to declining stock prices and now has a market value below $20 million. Qingting FM, founded slightly earlier than Ximalaya, became embroiled in controversies involving inappropriate content and unauthorized charges, and has since virtually disappeared. Conversely, Xiaoyuzhou launched in March 2020 and Tomato Listen launched in June of the same year have rapidly risen, with the former capitalizing on podcast popularity and the latter leveraging parent company ByteDance's traffic ecosystem.

During its heyday, Ximalaya secured funding from numerous renowned institutions including Tencent, Baidu, SIG, KPCB, and General Atlantic, raising over 5 billion yuan with valuations once exceeding $4 billion. However, it ultimately failed to achieve founder Yu Jianjun's expected outcome—at a June 2025 online internal communication meeting regarding TME's acquisition of Ximalaya, Yu broke down in tears.

A internet company that has struggled for 13 years, after numerous attempts, still failed to complete its IPO ambitions. The founder, bearing enormous pressure, inevitably felt a complex mix of emotions. Having been pushed by capital and likely constrained by it, rising and falling with industry tides while continuously seeking optimal solutions, both Ximalaya and its core architect Yu Jianjun now face regrets extending far beyond just timing and certainly not limited to podcasts alone.

**01 Weakening Podcast Mind Share**

Podcasts have become a content trend.

According to "The Podcast Consumer 2024" released by research firm Edison Research, average US user podcast consumption in 2024 increased 450% compared to 2014; 67% of Americans aged 12 and above have listened to podcasts, with 34% having listened in the past week.

China's podcast sector developed later than overseas markets. Platforms like NetEase Cloud Music and Ximalaya entered in 2020, with Xiaoyuzhou also launching that year as a trendy podcast platform for young audiences, rapidly capturing user mind share with impressive growth. Research by podcast label JUSTPOD shows that in 2024, the top five podcast platforms used by Chinese users were Xiaoyuzhou (87.1%), Apple Podcasts (36.9%), Spotify (12.3%), Ximalaya (12.2%), and NetEase Cloud Music (10.4%). Xiaoyuzhou increased 12.5 percentage points from 74.6% in 2022, while the other four platforms all declined.

Ximalaya's presence and influence in podcasting don't match its position in China's online audio sector.

According to research firm CIC cited in Ximalaya's prospectus, Ximalaya held approximately 25% of China's online audio market share in 2023, far exceeding second-place Qingting FM's 13%. Data from research firm iiMedia Research shows Ximalaya ranked first among online audio apps commonly used by Chinese users in 2024.

Ximalaya hasn't neglected podcasts—it launched podcast services in September 2020, had over 26,000 podcast albums by 2023, and partnered with Apple Podcasts. At Ximalaya's February 2023 creator conference, Yu Jianjun announced a focus on podcasts. Ximalaya has actively recruited celebrities like Hong Huang.

Ximalaya has produced significant original podcast content. For example, during the World Artificial Intelligence Conference (WAIC), Ximalaya partnered with the event in 2024, setting up podcast spaces on-site and recording interviews for its show "AI Watch." In 2025, Ximalaya became the conference's exclusive podcast partner, interviewing representatives from tech companies like Li Weike, Lingchu Intelligence, and Tashan Technology, with content also included in "AI Watch."

However, Ximalaya's user mind share in podcasting has consistently lagged behind startup platform Xiaoyuzhou.

Social media discussions by podcast users reflect this reality. Xiaohongshu serves as a common traffic source for podcasts. Searching "podcast" on Xiaohongshu and sorting by likes, dozens of posts with over 10,000 likes predominantly recommend Xiaoyuzhou, with very few mentioning Ximalaya. For instance, Xiaohongshu blogger "Podcast Recommender A Zi" shared "100 God-tier Episodes on Xiaoyuzhou" with 17,000 likes and 23,000 saves, generating highly active user engagement and in-depth discussions.

Interaction levels for Luo Yonghao's podcast across platforms also illustrate this point.

Long-form content platforms typically generate deeper engagement. For Luo's first episode, Douyin, Kuaishou, and Xiaohongshu had hundreds to thousands of comments, mostly brief one- or two-sentence reviews. Bilibili achieved over 2.3 million views with more than 2,500 comments, many exceeding 150 characters. Xiaoyuzhou reached 180,000 plays with over 1,200 comments, also featuring numerous lengthy comments and detailed "listening notes." However, on Ximalaya, traditionally a long-form audio platform, the program currently has only 10 total comments.

In terms of tone, Xiaoyuzhou resembles Douban, with users valuing depth and literary content, willing to engage deeply with quality long-form content. Developmentally, Xiaoyuzhou mirrors pre-mainstream Bilibili, having captured young user mind share before gaining recognition from technology and media professionals, now moving toward more substantial commercialization.

Despite apparent efforts, Ximalaya struggles to achieve meaningful results. Currently, Ximalaya's podcast section is buried deep in the app, positioned after over 20 tabs including "Recommendations," "Novels," "Live," and "Books" in the top navigation. Exclusive content like "AI Watch" has only 649,000 album plays, with some episodes receiving zero comments. Hong Huang, who originally used Ximalaya as her primary platform, has now launched her podcast "Hitting the Mark by Accident" on Xiaoyuzhou, with the show's producer Uncle Luo criticizing Ximalaya on podcast show "When You're Famous" for failing to bring commercial opportunities to Hong's team and poor conversion rates.

**02 Profits Through Cost Reduction**

Ximalaya's current playback data is still primarily supported by traditional strong content, including crosstalk, storytelling, audiobooks, audio dramas, and children's stories.

According to observations, Ximalaya's platform-wide playback rankings show content with over 1 billion cumulative plays including Guo Degang's crosstalk, Shan Tianfang's storytelling, novels like "Sword Snow Stride," "A Mortal's Journey to Immortality," and "Da Feng Nightwatchman," children's stories like "Detective Mike Fox" and "Monkey Chief," plus anime-adapted audio drama "Ni Tian." In the podcast section, top podcasts like "Just Chatting," "Blackwater Park," "Cultural Limited," and "Concave Convex Radio" have maximum play counts under 400 million. Content classified as "Story Podcasts" such as "Late Night Tea House" and "Unsolved Mysteries of Chinese History" with 1 billion-level play counts are actually audio stories, not podcasts in the popular definition.

Ximalaya's revenue primarily comes from paid subscriptions—users purchasing memberships or pay-per-content. According to the prospectus, Ximalaya's revenue comprises four core segments: subscriptions (51.7%), advertising (23.1%), live streaming (18.4%), and innovative products and services (6.8%) in 2023.

Paid subscriptions are common for content platforms, which typically boost revenue by expanding paying user bases and increasing per-user payment amounts, though payment amounts and payment rates often have an inverse relationship.

This applies to Ximalaya as well. According to the prospectus, mobile paid member payment rates were 12.4%, 12.6%, and 11.6% in 2021, 2022, and 2023 respectively, while monthly average payment per subscription member was 11.2, 12.5, and 13.4 yuan respectively. The platform achieved slight payment rate increases while raising per-user amounts in 2022, but experienced greater payment rate declines when per-user amounts rose in 2023.

This contributes significantly to Ximalaya's slowing revenue growth. In terms of revenue scale, Ximalaya hasn't reached the stage where large base numbers necessitate slower growth. The prospectus shows revenues of 5.857 billion, 6.061 billion, and 6.163 billion yuan in 2021, 2022, and 2023, with growth rates declining from 43.7% in 2021 to 1.7% in 2023.

When user payment amounts and rates have an inverse relationship, platforms' direct path to higher revenue involves expanding user bases. This way, even with stable payment rates, absolute growth in paying users can drive revenue growth. However, Ximalaya's user scale development has been disappointing.

According to the prospectus, average MAU (monthly active users) were 267 million, 291 million, and 302 million in 2021, 2022, and 2023, with growth rates declining from 8.7% to 3.9%. The 2023 MAU of 302 million included 133 million mobile users and 170 million IoT and other open platform users, while mobile daily active user listening time declined from 144 minutes in 2021 to 130 minutes in 2023. From April 2024's final prospectus submission to date, Ximalaya's official communications still use the 2023 MAU figure of 302 million.

Looking solely at mobile users by research firm metrics, Ximalaya's user scale is declining. QuestMobile data shows Ximalaya's MAU was 82 million in December 2020 and 97 million in December 2021, maintaining 97 million average in 2022. By June 2025, MAU had dropped to 72.654 million, falling below Tomato Listen's 97.049 million.

Beyond growth, Ximalaya faces profitability challenges.

In 2019, Yu Jianjun boldly stated there was no profitability timeline or IPO plans. However, by 2022, according to LatePost reporting, Ximalaya management established a five-year plan including achieving Q4 2022 quarterly profitability with narrowed annual losses, full-year profitability in 2023, and after five years, achieving 20 billion yuan annual revenue with 4 billion yuan profits.

According to the prospectus, Ximalaya's adjusted net losses narrowed from 774 million yuan in 2018 to 296 million yuan in 2022, totaling 3.166 billion yuan over five years, achieving adjusted net profit of 224 million yuan in 2023. This indeed achieved the five-year plan's annual profitability target, but profits came from cost reduction rather than growth. The prospectus shows Ximalaya's sales and marketing costs decreased from 2.63 billion yuan in 2021 to 2.07 billion yuan in 2023, cutting 560 million yuan cumulatively. Employee count dropped from 4,342 at end-2021 to 2,637 at end-2023, reducing by 1,705 people.

Ximalaya undoubtedly missed its optimal IPO window. Four years ago in May 2021, Ximalaya made its move, filing with NASDAQ, but later withdrew due to geopolitical issues and pivoted to Hong Kong. After three consecutive filings with Hong Kong Stock Exchange in September 2021, March 2022, and April 2024, it failed to go public.

**03 Video's Limited Potential**

The core of paid subscription models requires content with sufficient appeal. Even long-established long-video platforms like iQiyi, Youku, Tencent Video, and Mango TV must balance content investment with user payment willingness. For online audio platforms, this challenge is more severe because audio naturally has weaker user appeal than video.

With limited appeal, various sales strategies become useful. In 2020, Ximalaya launched a "buy 1 get 13" membership package, where users paying minimum 218 yuan could access annual memberships for 13 platforms including Ximalaya, NetEase Cloud Music, Tencent Video, and iQiyi. Such bundled sales continue today, though partnerships have shrunk—Ximalaya promoted "buy 1 get 12" in 2023, "buy 1 get 10" in 2024, and now only bundles with JD PLUS membership and Youku VIP half-year cards.

Users on social media report purchasing Ximalaya memberships primarily for bundled platform benefits, with some deciding not to renew due to unsatisfactory 2025 offerings. Others mention Ximalaya's increasingly complex payment system, introducing SVIP tiers above VIP requiring additional payments for more content.

Ximalaya also faces ceiling limitations in the online audio sector itself.

According to "China Online Audiovisual Development Research Report (2025)," as of December 2024, short video applications led the audiovisual industry in both user scale and usage time, reaching 1.04 billion users with 156 minutes average daily usage. Audio users numbered 335 million—a figure that exceeded 300 million eight years ago—while daily audio usage declined from 58 minutes in 2020 to 25 minutes in 2024.

Ranking user attention levels: short video > long video > text/images > audio. Scenario limitations make audio advertising less effective, naturally making advertising revenue growth more difficult—an inherent industry weakness.

Comparing horizontally, Ximalaya as the top online audio platform struggles with advertising revenue compared to other industry platforms. According to QuestMobile data, China's top 15 internet platforms by advertising revenue in H1 2025 included Douyin, Kuaishou, WeChat, Baidu, Toutiao, JD, and Taobao, but not Ximalaya. In June 2025's top 20 app media commercial value rankings, including Sina News with 127 million deduplicated total users and Xigua Video with 109 million, Ximalaya was absent.

More importantly, video can become audio, but audio struggles to become video. Video platforms including Douyin, Kuaishou, Bilibili, and WeChat Video all offer "listen to video" functions, allowing users to convert video to audio in listening scenarios, but reverse operation is impossible.

This explains Ximalaya's attempts to expand into video.

Ximalaya's entry into video includes micro-drama ventures. In June 2022, Ximalaya partnered with Mango TV to launch micro-drama "The Legendary Dr. Lu" presented in video format on the Ximalaya app. In March 2023, Ximalaya invested in Shanghai Xibao Legend Media Technology Co., Ltd., entering micro-drama business. Xibao's collaboration with Yunyan Culture on micro-drama "The World's Little Mad Doctor" gained popularity with over 500 million Douyin topic views.

However, the micro-drama industry landscape is already clear, with ByteDance's Red Fruit Short Drama dominating. QuestMobile data shows Red Fruit Short Drama led June 2025's top 10 short drama apps with 212 million users, far exceeding second-place Hippo Theater's 45.28 million. Below Red Fruit Short Drama, numerous platforms compete intensely, leaving minimal space for Ximalaya.

Clearly, ByteDance, centered on Tomato Novel, has extended business tentacles to audiobooks, micro-dramas, and other areas, continuously squeezing Ximalaya's survival space. Tomato Listen's MAU has surpassed Ximalaya's, ranking first in China's audiobook sector.

Ximalaya is also developing video podcasts. In March 2025, Ximalaya launched video podcast "Walking Thoughts" sponsored by Pacific Insurance, simultaneously releasing audio versions. The show features walking interview formats with ordinary people in different professions like firefighters and swimmers.

Official data shows "Walking Thoughts" has exceeded 10 million plays on Ximalaya, with audio episodes averaging over 500,000 plays and video episodes over 800,000 plays. Luo Yonghao's podcast appears on Ximalaya in video format, likely reflecting the platform's video podcast development considerations, but obviously, it cannot quickly capture user mind share like Xiaoyuzhou or surpass video platforms like Bilibili.

Currently, Ximalaya has neither established unshakeable advantages in traditional areas nor focused on creating uniquely exclusive new products. Insufficient strategic foresight easily leads to broad but mediocre positioning.

This may relate to organizational structure issues. According to previous Phoenix Technology reports, co-founders and co-CEOs Yu Jianjun and Chen Xiaoyu alternated company leadership every six months to one year, easily causing strategic discontinuities. In September 2022, COO Lu Dongdong's departure left the organization lacking middle management for strategy-to-execution translation.

Frequent organizational adjustments affect strategic implementation and create instability, making it difficult to maintain long-term consistent direction. Combined with industry limitations, organizational and strategic problems become further amplified.

Ximalaya's bet on video podcasts resembles aligning with global streaming leader Spotify. Starting with online music, Spotify aggressively entered podcasting in 2019, continuously enriching non-music audio content formats, later gradually introducing video podcast functionality. To strengthen content barriers, Spotify paid $100 million for exclusive rights to leading US podcast host Joe Rogan's show.

Spotify possesses strong product technology capabilities and has gradually formed high-stickiness user ecosystems with community atmosphere and user loyalty resembling a combination of China's NetEase Cloud Music and Xiaoyuzhou. For TME, acquiring Ximalaya represents an important step in completing online audio content offerings. If benchmarking against Spotify, future developments could be quite promising. For Ximalaya, only sighs remain.